Tien (End of DBZ) vs Frieza 50% Final Form

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Tien (End of DBZ) vs Frieza 50% Final Form; Take your bets
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 9 2009, 06:02 PM (10,538 Views)
cmay119	Oct 9 2009, 06:02 PM Post #1
Posts: 14 Group: New Member Member #4,511 Joined: October 9, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome / Firefox 3.0	As the title says. Follow up question, how do you think he'd fair against 100% Frieza / Mecha-Frieza? Would the Tri-beam be enough to take Frieza down? Or do you think he'd have the power to go toe to toe in a brawl with him? EDIT: Sorry if this topic has already been discussed. Edited by cmay119, Oct 9 2009, 06:05 PM.



Cooler	Oct 9 2009, 06:10 PM Post #2
Posts: 318 Group: Member Member #4,461 Joined: September 11, 2009	If we exclude filler from the debate then I think 50% final form Frieza is overkill. Frieza was feared as the most powerful being in the universe for a reason I can't believe Tien could compete with him the difference in power levels is vast! From the Namek saga Tien would have had to increase his PL by thousands of times to match Frieza. His Tri beam would no doubt have an effect but then again thats one weapon Tien has vs all the various weapons Frieza has displayed each one capable of killing Tien with ease. Basically if Frieza was serious Tien wouldn't even see Frieza before he was paste third eye or not.



cmay119	Oct 9 2009, 06:51 PM Post #3
Posts: 14 Group: New Member Member #4,511 Joined: October 9, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome / Firefox 3.0	Hi Cooler, thanks for you input. Hmm... You don't believe the training he did since the Frieza saga (preparing for the Androids) and subsequent training all the way through till the end of DBZ didn't increase his powerlevel enough, huh? I have to believe Tien was at the very least as strong as base form Goku during the Frieza battle (under the impression he was actually quite a bit stronger than that).



Cooler	Oct 9 2009, 06:56 PM Post #4
Posts: 318 Group: Member Member #4,461 Joined: September 11, 2009	cmay119 Oct 9 2009, 06:51 PM Hi Cooler, thanks for you input. Hmm... You don't believe the training he did since the Frieza saga (preparing for the Androids) and subsequent training all the way through till the end of DBZ didn't increase his powerlevel enough, huh? I have to believe Tien was at the very least as strong as base form Goku during the Frieza battle (under the impression he was actually quite a bit stronger than that). The difference in power is vast. Frieza has a PL at 50% of 60 million I believe and Tien at the end of the Saiyan Saga was under 2000...thats a difference of 30,000! Tien isn't a saiyan he doesn't get boosts from just fighting or near death experiences there's just no way he could compete with Frieza. Frieza was the most powerful fighter in the universe even in his 1st form, there's no way Tien is going to be able to compare to being like Frieza no matter how much training he does. I have a hard time believing even Goku/Vegeta/Gohan had increased their base strengths by 100 times to be able to match Frieza without going Super Saiyan in the 10 years after Namek.



cmay119	Oct 9 2009, 07:46 PM Post #5
Posts: 14 Group: New Member Member #4,511 Joined: October 9, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome / Firefox 3.0	Cooler Oct 9 2009, 06:56 PM cmay119 Oct 9 2009, 06:51 PM Hi Cooler, thanks for you input. Hmm... You don't believe the training he did since the Frieza saga (preparing for the Androids) and subsequent training all the way through till the end of DBZ didn't increase his powerlevel enough, huh? I have to believe Tien was at the very least as strong as base form Goku during the Frieza battle (under the impression he was actually quite a bit stronger than that). The difference in power is vast. Frieza has a PL at 50% of 60 million I believe and Tien at the end of the Saiyan Saga was under 2000...thats a difference of 30,000! Tien isn't a saiyan he doesn't get boosts from just fighting or near death experiences there's just no way he could compete with Frieza. Frieza was the most powerful fighter in the universe even in his 1st form, there's no way Tien is going to be able to compare to being like Frieza no matter how much training he does. I have a hard time believing even Goku/Vegeta/Gohan had increased their base strengths by 100 times to be able to match Frieza without going Super Saiyan in the 10 years after Namek. Fair enough about the power level quoting, perhaps I have drastically over estimated the power level of Tien. Though the one last ditch arguement I'll make for Tien is the pretty impressive power level increase, he, Chiaotzu & Yamcha all made on King Kai's planet. They were able to beat the Ginyu force with ease once they realized they were stronger than them. How long were they dead for by that time? Less than a year right? Or was it more? Though not even close to the 30,000x you just stated, it still shows they were able to substantially increase there power level in a relatively short period of time...



UnstoppableBeast	Oct 10 2009, 12:59 AM Post #6
Posts: 2 Group: New Member Member #4,512 Joined: October 10, 2009	This is certainly a tough question. The thing that I think about is that Tien was able to keep down a semi-perfect cell (who at that point could take on SSJ Vegeta/SSJ Trunks.) while Freiza had trouble with an in-experienced SSJ Goku. I think that if Tien could take Freiza (even full form) by surprise he may have a slim chance of defeating him. The point is that by the end of DBZ, Tien would've been training for approximately 15-20 years. And would've dealt with androids, cell, and the whole buu saga thing (which I admit, Tien was never a main character, in fact I think he was behind Yamcha in the number of appearances and his actual impact on the plot, but he couldn't be lagging that far behind everyone). If Frieza, which you say that he had a power level of 60 million at 50%, is weaker than Cell (I it's 6 million, btw), than I'll assume that Cell has a powerlevel of at LEAST 50 million in his semi-perfect state. If this is true and Tien was able to keep him down, than I'm assuming that Tien at that stage was at least 1/4 of Semi-perfect Cell's power. Putting him at about 10 million. Give or take some as we arrive at the very end of the Buu saga and I could see Tien putting up a fight against Frieza. Edited by UnstoppableBeast, Oct 10 2009, 01:07 AM.



Super Goku	Oct 11 2009, 03:14 PM Post #7
Vizard Jinchurikii Posts: 966 Group: Member Member #4,266 Joined: June 26, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Naruto	your power levels are incorrect, freeza 100% has been proven to be at 120m, and SSJ goku at 150m. Anyways, whenever we saw Tien after the Cell saga, he and chaozu appeared to be training. If he trained for like, atleast ten years since the freeza threat, i think he could maybe win.. He would have to use something like taioken (which has been proven useful vs. freeza) and blast him with this ki-ko-ho as many times as he could. in the android saga, semi-perfect cell was held down with the kikoho, and had wounds on his body (scrapes, but wounds). I assume 7 years of training would increase this power, and could probably damage freeza who is very much weaker than cell. tien(7years of training)kikoho >> tien's kikoho Semi Perfect Cell >>> Freeza this doesnt necessarily guarantee tien a win though. Edited by Super Goku, Oct 11 2009, 03:15 PM.
	BURNING HELL FTW


Cooler	Oct 11 2009, 05:28 PM Post #8
Posts: 318 Group: Member Member #4,461 Joined: September 11, 2009	Super Goku Oct 11 2009, 03:14 PM your power levels are incorrect, freeza 100% has been proven to be at 120m, and SSJ goku at 150m. Anyways, whenever we saw Tien after the Cell saga, he and chaozu appeared to be training. If he trained for like, atleast ten years since the freeza threat, i think he could maybe win.. He would have to use something like taioken (which has been proven useful vs. freeza) and blast him with this ki-ko-ho as many times as he could. in the android saga, semi-perfect cell was held down with the kikoho, and had wounds on his body (scrapes, but wounds). I assume 7 years of training would increase this power, and could probably damage freeza who is very much weaker than cell. tien(7years of training)kikoho >> tien's kikoho Semi Perfect Cell >>> Freeza this doesnt necessarily guarantee tien a win though. Could Tien even hit Frieza with the Tri beam if Frieza was aware of him? Tien has never demonstrated the Kaioken attack much less a times 20 like what Goku needed to match Frieza at 50% of his power so its far more likely that Tien is limited to his base power. 10 years of training is not going to get him to SSJ levels, he was a fraction of Goku's strength before Goku transformed there's no realistic reason to think Tien could increase his power by thousands of times in 10 years. Less than half of Frieza's body survived the explosion of planet Namek he's incredibly durable I can't see any of Tien's attacks hitting a serious Frieza let alone killing him. Basically Tien has one effective move, Frieza has dozens of ways to kill Tien. Its no contest even one of Frieza's weaker forms could handle Tien.



cmay119	Oct 11 2009, 11:17 PM Post #9
Posts: 14 Group: New Member Member #4,511 Joined: October 9, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome / Firefox 3.0	Cooler Oct 11 2009, 05:28 PM Tien has never demonstrated the Kaioken attack much less a times 20 like what Goku needed to match Frieza at 50% of his power so its far more likely that Tien is limited to his base power. Didn't Tien use the Kaio-Ken Technique to knock Jaice & Burter off King Kai's planet? He never said 'Kaio-Ken', but did have a charged Red-Aura, when he hit directly into their 'Hurricane-Attack'.



Emperor Cold	Oct 12 2009, 05:46 AM Post #10
Makaioshin Posts: 317 Group: Member Member #3,724 Joined: October 5, 2008 Favourite Anime Dragonball/Z/GT (yes I like GT...imagine that!) Detective Conan, FMA (original), Yu Yu Hakusho Favourite Manga Anything by Akira Toriyama	cmay119 Oct 11 2009, 11:17 PM Cooler Oct 11 2009, 05:28 PM Tien has never demonstrated the Kaioken attack much less a times 20 like what Goku needed to match Frieza at 50% of his power so its far more likely that Tien is limited to his base power. Didn't Tien use the Kaio-Ken Technique to knock Jaice & Burter off King Kai's planet? He never said 'Kaio-Ken', but did have a charged Red-Aura, when he hit directly into their 'Hurricane-Attack'. Don't use that fight with the Ginyu Force as evidence, it was pure filler. There is absolutely no way that three humans who couldn't even touch Nappa would stand any chance at all against the Ginyu Force after half a year on King Kai's planet. Realistically, I think even Dodoria would've been able to take all three fairly easily. A taioken-kikoho combo might be enough to beat Frieza if his guard was down, but Frieza could very easily spear him through the heart with a death beam before Tien could do so much as raise his hands. And I don't think any ammount of training would change this. Remember, training doesn't work for humans the way it does for Saiyans, for humans training on Earth usually only raises their PL by increments of no more than 1000 per year. And Frieza's first form had a PL of 530,000. Also, I think at some point Tien would've reached a peak where training wouldn't actually make him any stronger, but he kept training anyway just to stay in shape. So yeah Frieza 50% final form would definately be overkill, I think his first form would be enough to finish the job as long as he took Tien seriously.



cmay119	Oct 13 2009, 10:56 PM Post #11
Posts: 14 Group: New Member Member #4,511 Joined: October 9, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome / Firefox 3.0	Alright, I'll forget about what I saw (didn't know that was filler, but haven't read the manga so I admit i'm at a disadvantage in this discussion). I ask you though, how do you know for certain that Tien hasn't increased a great deal in power (more so than just a couple thousand a year)? Where are you guys getting the stats that he just hasn't increased that much since the Saiyan saga (Once again, if in the Manga than I conceed the point)? The only time I've really seen him in action since the Frieza Saga is against Semi-Perfect cell with the Tri-Beam attack. Though I understand the Tri-Beam attack doesn't seem to work the same way as other Ki-Blasts (something about feeding off of Tien's Life Force?), I still see him rocking down an enemy far greater than Final Form frieza into a hole, until Tien runs out of energy (as far as I'm aware that's the only show of Tiens power upto that point, since the Saiyan Saga). So how, can I assume then that he's still incredibly weak after the Buu saga? Explain that part to me and I'll conceed that he's no match for Frieza.



POOHEAD189	Nov 27 2009, 01:59 AM Post #12
Posts: 3,186 Group: Member Member #4,559 Joined: October 30, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragonball/Z Favourite Manga Dragonball	Sigh* I didnt want to bring this up, it is very controversial with the fans but... There is a reason why Tien did not show up at the world tournament right before buu. Acording to diazschenuu 7, Akira Toriyama didnt want tien to be ther because he would have joined the others attacking babadi's ship. And the reason why he didnt want him to join them was because dabura would have spit on...GOHAN! DUN DUN DUN! Thats right, the three strongest and the kai would have been spared, and at the time, since tien trained for 7 years and gohan didnt, Tien has actually become stronger than Dabura and Gohan!! And unless someone states frieza is stronger than ss2 gohan, then tien would punch him once and frieza would explode. Tien blasting away an energy attack made by superbuu should have given people some insight into how far he has come in his strength. Oh, and even though the ginyu vs. z fighter on king kais planet was not in the manga, it still counts because it is one of the few scenes not in the manga akira directed and approved himself. In other words, the fight was akira's idea. Edited by POOHEAD189, Nov 27 2009, 02:03 AM.
	Tha gaol agam ort. <3


Qwuall	Nov 30 2009, 06:19 AM Post #13
Posts: 361 Group: Member Member #4,531 Joined: October 20, 2009	In the fight with Frieza Piccolo krillin and gohan couldn't even see or detect frieza final supressed. They could barely keep up with the action on the sidelines. When the androids came, Tien could keep up easily so I believe this would put at least around (most likely) above 3 million. Tien isn't truely human either and his potential has always been greater then the rest of the humans, plus he trains nonstop. My numbers (that mean nothing really) put Tien at about 80 million just in the buu saga. which is a little higher then Frieza 50%. Quote: Acording to diazschenuu 7, Akira Toriyama didnt want tien to be ther because he would have joined the others attacking babadi's ship. And the reason why he didnt want him to join them was because dabura would have spit on...GOHAN! DUN DUN DUN! Thats right, the three strongest and the kai would have been spared, and at the time, since tien trained for 7 years and gohan didnt, Tien has actually become stronger than Dabura and Gohan!! Is this actually true? because like.. that's bloody sweet. Go Tien!



Cooler	Nov 30 2009, 09:29 PM Post #14
Posts: 318 Group: Member Member #4,461 Joined: September 11, 2009	POOHEAD189 Nov 27 2009, 01:59 AM Sigh* I didnt want to bring this up, it is very controversial with the fans but... There is a reason why Tien did not show up at the world tournament right before buu. Acording to diazschenuu 7, Akira Toriyama didnt want tien to be ther because he would have joined the others attacking babadi's ship. And the reason why he didnt want him to join them was because dabura would have spit on...GOHAN! DUN DUN DUN! Thats right, the three strongest and the kai would have been spared, and at the time, since tien trained for 7 years and gohan didnt, Tien has actually become stronger than Dabura and Gohan!! And unless someone states frieza is stronger than ss2 gohan, then tien would punch him once and frieza would explode. Tien blasting away an energy attack made by superbuu should have given people some insight into how far he has come in his strength. Oh, and even though the ginyu vs. z fighter on king kais planet was not in the manga, it still counts because it is one of the few scenes not in the manga akira directed and approved himself. In other words, the fight was akira's idea. That sounds like nonsense to me. Tien and the other other humans were only increasing by increments of hundreds in dragonball and early dragonball z per year now apparently he's making jumps of millions per year (just to come close to Frieza). If he's at Gohan's level thats hundreds of millions per year! Impossible and complete nonsense. Saiyans have transformations to reach the massive power levels, without SSJ I think base level saiyans would struggle with Frieza and there's no way Tien can even match the base strength of Goku, Vegeta and Gohan. Think of it this way in the Frieza saga Goku's base hundreds of times stronger than Tien and Goku's been continually training and getting stronger at a far faster rate than Tien so there's no way Tien is able to match even base Saiyans. For the base saiyans to be able to handle 50% Frieza they'd need to be what 30-50x stronger than they were in the Frieza saga without transformations. Its definately possible for them but not for Tien. Frieza at 50% power thunder stomps Tien before he can even register Frieza's presence.



Qwuall	Dec 1 2009, 07:18 PM Post #15
Posts: 361 Group: Member Member #4,531 Joined: October 20, 2009	Quote: Tien and the other other humans were only increasing by increments of hundreds in dragonball and early dragonball z per year now apparently he's making jumps of millions per year (just to come close to Frieza). You can't just say that because goku also only increased in hundreds during dragonball. The only reason Goku got a good lead In Z was because he trained with king kai and then had a really incredible Zenkai power up before frieza. Everyone in the show increased exponetionally. Edited by Qwuall, Dec 2 2009, 03:35 AM.



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